In episode 11 we’re talking to Stephanie Jones, an industry changemaker who is creating a more responsible and equitable travel industry for all as part of her work for the Cultural Heritage Economic Alliance and Blacks in Travel and Tourism.

New to 85 Percent? Here’s a quick intro

Did you know that women make 85% of travel decisions, and yet make up just a tiny fraction of who we see in travel media and leadership? 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast showcases the trailblazing women of travel and the stories they have to share with the world. It’s hosted by Wanderful’s founder and CEO, Beth Santos.

The format is part interview, part narrative style, sharing the powerful, passionate travel stories that have changed the lives of the women who are changing travel right back.

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New for Listeners: Share Your Travel Story with Us

At the end of each episode, we’re sharing a travel story from one of our listeners.

This should be a 2-minute recording of a moment that changed you during your travels. It may be something that surprised you, a funny or harrowing experience, or something else that gave you an important lesson about travel.

Introducing Episode 11 with Stephanie Jones

Stephanie M. Jones is the visionary Founder & CEO of the Cultural Heritage Economic Alliance, Inc. (CHEA), a pioneering organization dedicated to transforming the travel and tourism landscape through innovative, sustainable initiatives empowering BIPOC businesses, professionals and students.

She’s the winner of the JourneyWoman Lifetime Achievement Award presented at the 2024 Bessie Awards. Despite her lifetime of incredible achievement though, Stephanie didn’t even take her first flight until she was in her 20s. We’ll take you onto the plane with this episode.

[00:00:00] Stephanie Jones: Going on that first trip actually inspired me to leave Detroit. Not just so much for myself, but for my daughter. Because I didn’t want it to be years or her in her twenties before She had the opportunity to experience different cultures.

Welcome to the 85 Percent Podcast

[00:00:24] Beth: Did you know that women make 85 percent of travel decisions?

[00:00:29] Whether booking a trip for our families or cleaning the hotel rooms, women are the backbone of the travel industry. But the people we see in travel shows, marketing, and leadership, they don’t look like us. Now we’re cutting through the noise to talk to the change makers, the trailblazers, and the women who make travel what it is and how we can make travel better for all of us.

[00:00:52] This is 85%. I’m your host, Beth Santos.

A New Take on the 85 Percent Podcast Style

Hey everyone. Well, [00:01:00] here we are deep into season two of 85%. If this is your first time here, welcome! It’s so great to have you and I hope that you enjoy the audio adventure that you’re about to be on. And if you’re a subscriber, welcome back! I’ll be honest, it’s a whole different kind of high to be a podcaster.

[00:01:22] To know that someone is listening to the stories you’re telling and what you have to say. is really a special feeling. Up until now, I’ve called myself a baby podcaster. I feel like I’m learning a lot more than I’m teaching. And the email messages that you have all been sending me feel so special. I’ve had so many people make suggestions for guests to invite on the podcast or ideas about what the next season should entail.

[00:01:53] It reminds me of the gratifying feeling of those early days of writing a travel blog. When you’re writing [00:02:00] for yourself, but you’re also having interesting and special conversations with readers and followers all over the world. But this time, it’s with my listeners. Whether you’ve just joined this journey, or you’ve been here from the beginning, thank you for taking some time to hear my voice.

[00:02:18] What do I have to say? And the absolutely astounding stories that follow some of our world’s greatest travel leaders. We may be deep into season two, but in a lot of ways, we are just getting started. If you’re new here, you probably don’t realize it, but I changed my format for this season. If you go back to season one and take a listen, you’ll hear some of the changes we implemented.

[00:02:45] Like this season, we’re focused a lot more on storytelling. And parts of each episode are designed to take you on an audio adventure to the waterfalls of Iguazu in Argentina, like in Episode 9 with Nikki Vargas, or the [00:03:00] freezing cold winds shaking the tent of Gabby Beckford’s first solo trip backpacking in Iceland.

[00:03:06] These additions have really helped bring each story to life, and I hope it’s been a fun experience for you, too. Send me a message anytime on Instagram at MaximumBeth and let me know what you think! I’d love to hear it. If you’re enjoying the audio journey, know that this episode is no different. My goal is to transport you to a time and a place.

[00:03:28] In this case, pivotal moment in travel that shaped the way some of travel’s mightiest have experienced the world. Thanks for watching! And when I say mighty, I really mean mighty because my guest this week is someone who has dedicated her entire professional career to making travel and tourism more equitable, sustainable, and responsible, especially for those who work in the industry.

Meet Stephanie Jones of the Cultural Heritage Economic Alliance

[00:03:53] Stephanie Jones is the visionary founder and CEO of the Cultural Heritage Economic Alliance, an [00:04:00] organization that is dedicated to transforming the travel and tourism landscape. They’re creating broader access, diversity, inclusion, equitable opportunity to help small BIPOC-owned businesses to fully participate and profit in the global travel and tourism industry.

[00:04:18] And they do that through a slew of innovative, sustainable initiatives that empower BIPOC businesses, professionals, and students. It’s hard to quantify the amount of work that CHEA does, but I’m going to try here. They run the Diversity Tourism Academy, an online program for small Black- and brown-owned tourism businesses to develop their business and get market ready.

[00:04:44] They operate Blacks in Travel and Tourism, an initiative aimed at advancing Blacks in Tourism, which includes the Black Tour Operators Network and an annual invitation only summit called the Future of Black Tourism Leadership Conclave. CHEA also runs the [00:05:00] NextGen Travel Abroad Africa program, a program that helps students aged 18 to 24 coming from underserved communities to visit the African continent and explore their cultural and ancestral heritage.

[00:05:13] Stephanie was listed as one of the 24 most influential women in travel by TravelPulse in 2024, and the winner of the Lifetime Achievement Award at the 2024 Bessie Awards. That award, named the Journeywoman Award, was named after the first female travel blogger, Journeywoman‘s Evelyn Hannon.

Stephanie is also a podcaster. [00:05:35] She’s host of the Necessary Disruptor podcast, where she has bold conversations with some of the most innovative and disruptive leaders across the travel and tourism industry. And by the way, her swag is top notch. During the weekend of WITS, our annual creator summit, she walked around with a t shirt that said, Women are necessary.

[00:05:57] Period. She had another [00:06:00] shirt, but it contained a really fantastic expletive that I can’t share on this podcast. So you have to look it up. You might at first be intimidated by a person like Stephanie. Wildly accomplished. Lifelong travel industry changemaker. But actually, she’s one of the most genuine and giving people I know.

[00:06:20] Talking to her brings comfort. The kind of comfort I would get sitting at the breakfast bar on a fall afternoon, chatting with a favorite aunt. By sharing her own life story, she simultaneously manages to give us all permission to discover our own paths. And that’s where I want to focus our episode today, not just on touting the amazing accomplishments she’s made professionally, but the personal journeys she’s had in order to get there as an advocate, as a single mom, and as someone actively seeking to pave pathways for the people who come after her.

[00:06:57] You see, despite being a lifetime [00:07:00] achievement award winner, Travel isn’t something that Stephanie did until she was in her early 20s. Here’s the story.

Stephanie Jones’ first plane ride

[00:07:11] One thing you notice about an airplane the first time you fly, if you’re old enough to be paying attention anyway, are the sounds. There are so many. The hum of the engine reverberating through the whole plane, louder and louder as the body’s airborne. The dings that notify travelers of seatbelt signs turning off.

[00:07:35] The slightly distorted voice of your flight attendant making an announcement. The carts pushing up and down the aisles. Everything is a feast for the senses. And as an early 20 something young Stephanie Jones feels like she’s entered a completely other world. Stephanie gazes out the small airplane window, watching a tiny world below her.[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] The city of Detroit turns into the crystalline blue waters of Lake Erie. Then the farmland of Western Pennsylvania and the rich forests of upstate New York.

[00:08:12] Stephanie Jones: I’m the youngest of 13 siblings. I grew up in Detroit, Michigan. My family growing up, we didn’t really travel. My father died when I was two and a half.

[00:08:24] The first time I was on a plane didn’t come until much later in my life. When you’re part of a big family, you’re not traveling to Disney. And my mom being a single mom. I didn’t have much of a travel experience other than getting on a train occasionally and going to Houston, Texas, or carpooling with the family and going to Houston, Texas for the family reunion.

[00:08:49] Beth: But when Stephanie took a job working in marketing and PR for Detroit’s African American History Museum, the CEO invited her along for a media tour. She’d be going on a plane for [00:09:00] the first time, jet setting from Detroit to New York, then Washington D. C., then Los Angeles. All in the span of a week. Seeing all of these places?

[00:09:11] Huge cities. Massive centers of power. One after the next. It shifted something in her. It was like her molecules were changing one day at a time.

[00:09:26] Stephanie: Jones The first time you go to New York, it’s like, “Oh my God, so much.” It’s so big. So many people. Same experience when I went to D. C. It was like, oh my God, to see the monuments.

[00:09:36] And just to really embrace these new experiences and new sites that I had never. Ever had before as a young adult. And then LA, the same thing, my first visit to Venice beach. And like a span of a week, I went to these three states and had these different cultural experiences and it was an awakening for me.

[00:10:03] And that’s when I decided that I’m moving out of Detroit. I just was now hungry to just experience. Other parts of the country. I wasn’t even thinking about the world yet, just the country and realized how limited from a cultural perspective, because only growing up. And being around black people, most of your life, it does shape and form your perspectives of others in a narrow point of view.

[00:10:37] And so that was really my first experience traveling to other parts of this country. And experiencing different cultures and just different communities and that ignited that motivated to travel. It wasn’t until in my early twenties, when I started working at the museum and traveling to, you know, those three cities and being immersed in the culture and just that really just sparked my interest in seeing more and learning more about what’s beyond The city of Detroit and the state of Michigan.

Stephanie Jones on Leaving Detroit

[00:11:18] Beth: Making this choice to leave wasn’t just something that Stephanie took lightly. At 23 years old, she was a single mom to her daughter, Daphne. It would be her daughter’s life that she’d be uprooting too. And yet, in a lot of ways, it was because of Daphne that the traveling bug bit so hard.

[00:11:37] Stephanie Jones: Going on that first trip actually inspired me to leave Detroit.

[00:11:42] Not just so much for myself, but for my daughter. Because I didn’t want it to be years or her in her twenties before she had the opportunity to experience different cultures, people from different parts of [00:12:00] the world. After I opened up the museum in 1997, that’s when I decided that I was ready to leave Detroit.

[00:12:09] Daphne must have been about six. I made the decision because I wanted her to be exposed to more cultures. We weren’t getting that in Detroit.

[00:12:24] Beth: The duo ended up moving to New Brunswick, New Jersey.

[00:12:28] Stephanie Jones: Wait a minute, let me look at this map. Where is New Jersey?

[00:12:34] This place, and then I saw how far it was to New York. And so I’m like, okay, I was ready

[00:12:40] Beth: for a change. Of course, relocating to New Jersey wasn’t the end of the ride. No, my friends, this is where it all began. Even on a tight budget, Stephanie wanted to show her daughter the world. She’d cobbled together funds to allow her daughter to travel to Australia when she was in middle school.[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] She credits these moments as milestones in her daughter’s journey of independence.

[00:13:06] Stephanie Jones: She really started to build that independence. Not having that fear of traveling by herself, even as a young kid. So now that’s why she’ll call me mama. I’m going to so and so country or continent. And I’m like, okay, let me just pray for her that she doesn’t have any fear of traveling solo in most of her travels.

[00:13:28] are solo. And I admire her for that because I haven’t always been that. I probably travel less solo than what groups are for work, but I admire her. And I also believe that it’s because of exposing her to travel just by herself to build that independence and to kind of remove that fear of traveling alone.

[00:13:53] She’s been all seven continents now. Normally she goes to at least three different countries, so I think last year she went to Thailand and New Zealand by herself and me, I’m tracking her. I’m like, I can’t go to sleep because I’m looking at her playing over all this water. And it’s like, I can’t sleep until I know she’s checked into her hotel.

A Trip to Antarctica and a Lesson in Leaving the Comfort Zone

[00:14:17] Beth: As a parent, fear is such a natural part of our existence. It goes hand in hand with love. We fear for our kids because we love them. And while the fear never really goes away, Stephanie has learned to recognize it, to manage it, even to find comfort in it. It allowed her to handle her own knee jerk reaction when her daughter pitched the idea of traveling to Antarctica together.

Stephanie Jones: [00:15:00] I only knew the limited knowledge. You see on TV. Oh, it’s so cold. It’s too cold. And then for someone my age who has arthritis in both of my knees, I’m like, Oh, my knees are going to be hurting because it’s so cold. And then it’s like, am I going to have mobility issues? Then it’s like, Oh, I have asthma. Well, my asthma flare up in that climate.

[00:15:19] So all of these things started. Coming to the forefront, people that I know, my family, they was like, you go on to Antarctica. Why are you going there? It’s too cold. And I still get that. But one of the things I wanted to make certain is that I shared the experience so that people could see it was the most beautiful experience I ever had in my life.

[00:15:42] It was such a surreal spiritual experience for me to be in a part of the world that a lot of people don’t venture to, to experience this. Pureness, everything about that experience from the luxury ship, the food, the spa, and then two, to be able [00:16:00] to share that experience with my daughter made it even more meaningful to both of us.

[00:16:06] And she would still be like, wow, pinch me. I can’t believe I’m here, but I had to. Address the fear that I had and false perceptions, because honestly, it was warmer over in Antarctica than it was in the U S it was never, when we went on the excursions in the Zodiacs, it was never a time when I was like, oh my God, I’m just so freezing.

[00:16:29] I think. The challenging part for me was putting on all that gear because I was so exhausted by the time I put it on and took it off. My husband started going on YouTube to find video of people who had gone to Antarctica and specifically gone on the cruise with the cruise line. And to hear it, kind of see their experience and how positive was that also started to address my fears.

[00:16:57] And I think that’s important too. If you’ve never been to a [00:17:00] destination and you are fearful about whether it’s the safety, you know, whether it’s going to be. Challenging from a mobility standpoint, there are YouTube videos, go and research people who have gone there just to hear their perspectives of what to do, what not to do, what to pack, because you basically got to pack everything when you go to Antarctica, because you, you, Can’t find a drugstore if you get sick and you gotta have ample insurance to make certain they can fly you from the ship to land.

[00:17:31] So just making certain again, being prepared, watching videos of people who have had that experience might help to ease some of those fears that you have about a destination.

[00:17:43] Beth: This is such a great tip on the fly that I want to highlight here. If you ever want to combat fear, hit it hard with information.

[00:17:53] Watch a video of someone who’s traveled to that place. Talk to someone who’s from there. Do your research to [00:18:00] really understand what that place is actually like and how to prepare for the reality when you arrive. It’s likely that you’ll find yourself busting a lot of preconceived notions and hidden biases of your own in the process.

[00:18:13] In our previous episode, we talked with Gabby Beckford of Packs Light. Who commented about how much she loves social media because it allows us to see people who look like us doing things that we might be hesitant about. Things that we might need a little nudge forward to do. That representation goes at the heart of Stephanie’s work at the Cultural Heritage Economic Alliance.

[00:18:35] Creating spaces where voices of small, minority, tourism related businesses are not just nurtured, but amplified. Because while we like to think that we experience travel completely unfiltered, the reality is that it’s always being presented under someone’s filter. Your tour guide, the marketing materials you read, that guidebook you downloaded [00:19:00] from the library.

[00:19:01] What your friend said about the place. So creating opportunities for a diversity of travel businesses and business owners to achieve success. It’s not just about supporting entrepreneurs. It’s about making sure we’re reframing travel more accurately for, well, everyone.

[00:19:20] Stephanie Jones: We deserve to be able to travel. It shouldn’t be an exclusive experience for people with money or people with the means.

And especially today, although it’s late. Now more expensive to travel, but I think it’s because of the planning people, brands and suppliers now give you the options to do payment plans, make payment on your travel over time. So again, that’s where the planning coming in. If you know, you want to go out of the country, start planning a year in advance and then plan.

Well, how am I going to get that money? You know, am I going to take on some extra work? Am I going to do something on the side? Am I just going to Cut some spending out like my Starbucks. Just re prioritizing how we’re spending the money instead of buying stuff. We put that money toward an experience and create memories so that we can access travel.

Acknowledging that everybody deserves to travel and that we can travel. And we just have to be intentional about planning for the travel. Some people may not have to, but most do. But you can travel if that’s what you decide you want to do. You just gotta shift your priorities and just make it happen. We all can travel.

We deserve to be able to travel. It shouldn’t be an exclusive experience for people with money or people with the means.

Stephanie Jones

Stephanie Jones on Travel as Self-Care

[00:20:41] Beth: While creating space for everyone to travel the world, Stephanie also believes strongly in what that means specifically for women. I talk about this part a lot in my book, Wander Woman, because I share the belief with her that we women are so used to defining ourselves in the context of our relationships [00:21:00] as a mother or a daughter or a wife or a sister that sometimes we forget the women inside of us that are separate from those titles.

[00:21:09] In that way, traveling, and especially traveling alone, can be a radical form of self care. It’s choosing ourselves first. It’s deciding that we deserve precious alone time. And taking the time to make yourself a priority isn’t just a great tip. It’s an essential part of practicing healthy self care for life.

[00:21:33] Stephanie Jones: I feel very strongly for me, self-care is equivalent to travel. That being intentional, being proactive, pre planning as much as you can and scheduling in a day or day, a couple of days before you travel, just for self care. Mindset from this busyness, you know, that we’re constantly in the, I think the most important thing for me is shifting my mindset and giving myself permission to disconnect from work and to make time for me to take care of me.

[00:22:13] Giving ourselves permission and giving ourselves grace, especially as women, we don’t do it enough because we always feel so obligated to other people, taking care of everybody else, making certain that everybody else is good, except for ourselves. So we have to be intentional about giving ourselves permission to step away from work and to do us whatever that looks like to do us.

[00:22:39] And if that’s doing nothing, if that’s, you know, having a bubble bath and a glass of wine, just laying on a sofa, watching sci fi and whatever that is to help you just shift and disconnect, then we must give ourselves permission and grace to do that

[00:22:57] Beth: consistently. As we wrap up, let’s take a moment to reflect on some of the key takeaways from our conversation with Stephanie.

“Giving ourselves permission and grace—especially as women, we don’t do it enough because we always feel so obligated to other people… We have to be intentional about giving ourselves permission to step away from work and to do us.”

Stephanie Jones

#1: Everyone can travel. You just need a plan.

From packing early to booking activities in advance, pre planning can take a lot of anxiety out of travel. Combat fear with information. Do your research and ask questions. It’s okay to have a little fear. And Lord knows travel isn’t always the most affordable thing, but travel can manifest itself in so many ways.

[00:23:34] And at its root, it’s about exposing ourselves to places and people that are different from us. Number two, seek out different perspectives. Travel isn’t a one dimensional experience. The things we take away from our travels depend heavily on the lenses through which we’re having that travel experience.

[00:23:53] On a macro level, that means investing in a travel industry that prioritizes a diversity of voices at its [00:24:00] forefront. But on a micro level, that means surrounding yourself with people who look and think differently from you. We all have a lot we can learn from each other. And number three, it’s okay to be a little selfish.

[00:24:16] Stephanie is a huge advocate of self care. And nowadays, she often practices that through luxury travel. She’s even started a blog in an Instagram account called The Selfish Luxury Traveler to drive the point home. For Stephanie, travel isn’t just about seeing new places. It’s a way to prioritize personal well being and self care.

[00:24:38] As Pooja Lakshmin, the author I reference all the time of the book Real Self Care, says Self care is a verb, not a noun. So how are you prioritizing yours? An enormous thank you to Stephanie Jones for sharing her stories and her insights with us.

Our Community WanderStory

[00:25:06] And now for my favorite part, our community wander stories. Each episode, I’m sharing a story from you, one of our listeners. This one comes from Amena Bakali of Hassans on Holiday. She’s a mom of three who took her family of five on a trip that totally changed the way they see the world. Here it is.

[00:25:27] Amena: Hey, Beth and community, this is Amena Bakali from Hassans on Holiday.

[00:25:30] So, one trip that we still talk about to this day that was truly an eye opening experience for us Is one that we took in July of 2021, so almost three years ago for some reference. Our youngest at that time was just six months and we spent the month of July in 2021 visiting Spain, France, and Turkey throughout the month of July.

[00:25:50] So the entire month, and just for some reference, our youngest at that time was just barely six months. And we celebrate two major holidays as Muslims. So the second holiday, [00:26:00] Eid al Adha, ended up falling during our time while we were in Turkey. And we knew this at the time of booking. And the purpose of this trip was not just to partake in a little bit more slower travel, to spend more time visiting more places, but also to challenge ourselves to get out of our comfort zone and celebrate The holiday of Eid al Adha in another country where we could possibly find a community and relate to people from our faith in a new country.

[00:26:25] This was truly such a eye opening experience for us. While there was a lot of discomfort, while it required us to get out of our comfort zone and find a community where we didn’t think we could. Because that’s what travel is about, right? Getting out of your comfort zone and being able to find a community no matter where you go.

[00:26:45] And that’s exactly what we did as a family of five when we celebrated Eid al Adha in Istanbul, Turkey three summers ago.

Our Next Episode

[00:26:53] Beth: On the next episode of 85 Percent, I have a treat for you. I’m speaking with Catarina Rivera, the founder of Blindish Latina, which is a platform that’s completely smashing stigmas about disability and inspiring an entire travel industry at the same time.

[00:27:10] Catarina: We had a group of all disabled travelers join us. Eight people came on the trip and we had all different kinds of disabilities. Five out of the eight have never traveled on their own. This is the first time for them.

[00:27:25] Beth: Thank you so much for listening to 85 Percent. Make sure if you want to follow along this journey, you hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts so you can keep up with new episodes every week as they drop. Of course, we want you to follow along online as well. Or you can follow me on Instagram at @MaximumBeth. Catch you next time. Safe travels, everyone.

About the 85 Percent Podcast

Women make 85 percent of travel decisions. So why are we not 85% of travel marketing?

85 Percent explores what it means to be a woman in travel through interviews with leading women in the travel, tourism and hospitality industries.

From CEOs, to travel influencers and writers, to women who work in cleaning and maintenance, we’re cutting into the underbelly of an industry that is predominantly made of women, but still fails to include them, and is hosted by Beth Santos, founder of leading women’s travel network, Wanderful.

About the Host, Beth Santos

Beth Santos is a passionate entrepreneur and community builder out to disrupt travel for women worldwide. She is founder and CEO of Wanderful, an international collective of travelers and travel content creators on a mission to make travel better for all women. She is the creator of the WITS Travel Creator Summit, a leading event for women and gender diverse travel creators, the annual Bessie Awards to honor women of impact in travel, and the first major outdoor travel festival by and for women, Wanderfest. 

Beth has been named one of 17 changemakers shaping the future of the travel industry by Business Insider, one of 12 women to follow by Conde Nast Traveller, and one of 20 influential women in the travel industry by Travel Pulse. In 2022, she was named Godmother of the Azamara Onward cruise ship. 

She is the author of WANDER WOMAN: How to Reclaim Your Space, Find Your Voice, and Travel the World, Solo and works to amplify underrepresented voices in travel while challenging each of us to do better in her work as a keynote speaker, an industry consultant, and a startup and small business coach. At home she is a co-owner of Ula Cafe, an inspired cafe and community hub in the Boston neighborhood of Jamaica Plain, where she lives with her husband and children.

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