In Episode 16 of 85 Percent, host Beth Santos sits down with Zina Bencheikh, Intrepid’s Managing Director.
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- 20 minute read
In Episode 16, we’re joined by Zina Bencheikh, a fearless advocate for sustainable tourism and Managing Director at Intrepid Travel. Zina’s journey is a masterclass in using travel as a force for good. Breaking barriers, empowering communities, and championing equality in an industry ripe for change. From leading efforts to create more opportunities for women in tourism to redefining what responsible travel looks like. Zina shares how she’s making a global impact, one itinerary at a time. If you’ve ever wondered how your travel choices can shape a better world, this conversation is for you.
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Did you know that women make 85% of travel decisions, and yet make up just a tiny fraction of who we see in travel media and leadership? 85 Percent: A Wanderful Podcast showcases the trailblazing women of travel and the stories they have to share with the world. It’s hosted by Wanderful’s founder and CEO, Beth Santos. The format is part interview, part narrative style. Sharing the powerful, passionate travel stories that have changed the lives of the women who are changing travel right back.
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Introducing Episode 16 with Zina Bencheikh
Meet Zina Bencheikh, Managing Director of Intrepid Travel for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. A trailblazer in sustainable tourism and gender equality, Zina is transforming the travel industry. From hiring female tour leaders in male-dominated regions to championing community impact, she’s redefining what it means to travel responsibly. Zina’s story is a testament to how adventure and advocacy can create meaningful change.
Zina: When it comes to travel, I think it’s important to keep an open mind and don’t be afraid to discover the known and to share in the unknown, to go to places with the idea that you might learn something.
Welcome to the 85 Percent Podcast
[00:01:19] Beth: Did you know that women make 85% of travel decisions, whether booking a trip for our families or cleaning the hotel rooms? Women are the backbone of the travel industry, but the people we see in travel shows, marketing, and leadership, they don’t look like us. Now we’re cutting through the noise to talk to the change makers, the trailblazers, and the women who make travel what it is and how we can make travel better for all of us.
This is 85 Percent. I’m your host, Beth Santos.
Challenging What We Believe
Beth: When was the last time that you were really wrong? I don’t mean you showed up to a party wearing a sweater when it’s actually 80 degrees out or when you burned a turkey on Thanksgiving. I mean that a core assumption you made was challenged that you put yourself through the ringer.
[00:01:14] That you were ready to fight for something you believed in, and then, whether suddenly or maybe even slowly over time, you realize that it was you that still had a lot more to learn than you thought. Being wrong isn’t a bad thing. Really, it’s not. We can’t possibly be expected to know everything or to do everything right all the time.
It drives me crazy when a politician or a celebrity is crucified for saying or believing something 20, 30, or even 40 years ago, but then says or believes something else now. To me, changing our perspective is a core part of being human. The problem instead is when we refuse to learn anything at all. It doesn’t make it easy though, and it especially doesn’t if we’ve built a lot of gravitas and credibility.
Who is Zina Bencheikh
Especially in a professional setting over the years, Zina Bencheikh had risen in her career from joining the finance team to working in operations to eventually achieving a managing director title of the entire Europe, Middle East and Africa region of intrepid travel. For those of you who don’t know, Intrepid is the travel industry’s largest B Corporation.
[00:02:36] They run affordable small-group tours in hundreds of places around the world. If you don’t know what a B Corp is, this is a special designation that a business can apply for. It certifies that a company is about more than just profit. B Corps have to achieve and maintain
extremely high standards of social enterprise.
Effectively merging profit and purpose with measured components that speak to their social and environmental impact. Intrepid, which was started by two friends in 1989, has built a real brand through its actions. Planning trips that attempt to more meaningfully visit a place and connect with its people.
So you could imagine that people like Zina, who rise up the ranks, are kind of expected to be equally insightful and aware, perhaps the most insightful and aware of anyone else at the company. Which may be precisely why this one particular trip Challenged her more than ever before.
Before we continue down this journey, I want to give a big shout out and a thank you to Intrepid, because they actually sponsored this episode. And what I mean by sponsored is that they gave me money in order to air the episode itself. Which has funded not just the creation of this episode, but also helped me defray some of the costs of this season’s production. It’s really important for me that you understand that they’ve played no part in structuring this episode or my commentary.
Gabby Beckford Vs Icelandic Volcano – 85 Percent Episode 10
[00:04:13] Nothing here is an ad, besides the 30-second ad spot that I’ve recorded for this episode. I want to be really clear about that because I don’t just accept funding from anyone, and especially not for 85 Percent. The fact that Intrepid was willing to help support this podcast meant a lot to me.
From having Intrepid join us on stage at the WITS Creator Summit in Riga, to connecting with the team in the middle of an Icelandic snowstorm at the International Women in Travel and Tourism Forum. To hosting our recent Jordan trip together, I feel grateful to have partnered with Intrepid in a variety of ways over the years, and to have watched them grow and evolve. And seriously, every time I’ve talked to the Intrepid team, this woman, Zina Bencheikh, she comes up. She’s reached near fame status because she quite single handedly made the tour guide industry in her home country of Morocco more gender diverse.
She actually lobbied the Moroccan Ministry of Tourism to open up more tour guide licenses to women, which they finally did in 2018, which by that point was the first time they had opened up licenses in 10 years. They had been managing to systematically keep women out of the tour guiding industry, simply from not opening up any new license applications. And that was a shame, because tour guides made really good money in Morocco, so the jobs were snatched up quickly by men. If you haven’t guessed, Zina is one of those people who simply doesn’t take no for an answer. Which is also why it might be more understandable that people like Zina, I just don’t think they’re wrong very often.
She has dismantled entire systems. She is so used to fighting for the right side of history that we forget that even she has moments where she realizes, Okay, she was totally wrong about that. Until now, that is. It’s our final story of Season 2 of 85 Percent. Next week, I’ll share a special episode that digs into some of our most important lessons learned. But for now, let’s go on one final trip together. And this time we’re traveling east.
The Call to Saudi Arabia
It’s sunset and the call to prayer reverberates through the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia. For a non-Muslim traveler, or for someone who hasn’t visited the Middle East before, the sound is almost surprising in its volume. The imam’s voice broadcasts through loudspeakers, the elongated vowels of his Arabic echoing off buildings nearby. It’s a literal soundtrack to this place. The second holiest place in Islam, and the holiest place that’s available to non-Muslims to visit. For Zina Bencheikh, who grew up Muslim in Marrakesh, Morocco, it’s not so much the call to prayer itself that surprises her, it’s more the fact of where she’s listening to it.
In a country she never thought she’d find herself in. And yet, here she is. When the idea was first presented to her to host a women’s expedition in Saudi Arabia, she scoffed. Women’s expeditions were special trips organized by her company, Intrepid. The idea is that travelers can experience a tour not only led by women, but focused on curating the place through local women’s eyes and experiences.
These tours had done well in places like her home country of Morocco and in Jordan, but in order for women to lead trips, they had to have a certain level of rights and autonomy. And wasn’t Saudi Arabia the farthest from that? Women weren’t even granted the right to drive until 2018. How could one possibly experience a place through women’s eyes when women were constantly being left behind? That was her thought anyway, until she met some Saudi women in January of 2020 at the International Women in Travel and Tourism Forum. And then her perspective began to change.
Breaking Stereotypes in Saudi Arabia
[00:08:53] Zina: And so I remember meeting with the Saudi women who were there coming to learn and as we did and spend time networking. And I just couldn’t believe she was a Saudi woman. It was just my own bias of seeing this beautiful, wonderful, empowered, working woman from Saudi who traveled from Saudi to it made me realize, has this country started to change because she’s working, she’s traveling alone. She’s uncovered. She didn’t have a veil or something. And I really just thought something else from Saudi women.
I just had a vision. And it also reminded me of myself because look, when I moved to France, I was 18 or 17 years old from Morocco. I remember having friends telling me, Oh, do you travel in camels? Do you have like a car that also looks very different? And I was like, okay, that’s the perception sometimes we create in the West of some countries because we just don’t know. We’re ignorant. We don’t travel to those. We realize that they’re also moving forward in a way or another. It was really the seed that was planted at the time in my mind.
[00:09:47] Beth: That encounter started to change the way Zina thought about Intrepid’s women’s expeditions. Maybe she thought, Okay. These expeditions weren’t just about creating new opportunities for travelers to have fun and see the world, though, of course, that was a core component of it. Maybe they also provided opportunities for women to speak for themselves in a world where we’re not always given that chance.
[00:10:11] Zina: The following three years during the pandemic, we’ve seen Saudi Arabia investing heavily in tourism, coming to every trade show, being hyper-present, and a lot of talks about how this is safe. Maybe greenwashing is not the right thing to do. We shouldn’t go there. Human rights problems. All of these things. Fine.
From my perspective, I was curious about it and Intrepid, we don’t boycott countries. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be operating anywhere. We go where we can because I was kind of talking about the people, not about the government. And the way we operate is making sure that the people from the country benefit from it because also our customers are curious. They are intrepid, you know, they’re curious adventures. They want to explore the world in a safe and immersive manner, which is what we offer. And when it came to Saudi Arabia, I started to think, well, actually, I think they could be really nice adventure to do there, especially if we put women in this.
Since they’re talking about having more female guides than we even have in Morocco, 30 per cent of the female they’re talking about the initiative. And I was really curious and I started to think about, Well, that could be. An idea that I think I know will make people ask questions, but if we do, we try it, it could be a good one.
Experiencing a Woman’s Expedition
[00:11:14] Beth: That was it. From then on, Zina had to check it out herself. She and her colleague, Jenny, who runs the Women’s Expedition Branch, traveled to Saudi Arabia to do a little research. When she arrived in country, ready to experience a sample women’s expedition, she was surprised by what she found. Not just a population of quiet, reserved, hidden women. Actually, quite the opposite.
[00:11:43] Zina: What I found there is that there was a change happening, that’s for sure. And what I’ve heard, especially from the women I met, was that they were happy about this change. It was giving them opportunities they didn’t have before. They could travel by themselves. They could set up their own business. I met with a divorcee who went to Australia to study, had her master’s come back, have two kids, runs a business that she runs a hotel and runs a change, like one of her family house into a little guest house or little boutique. She runs her own cooking classes, she was a guide for like the cruises industry that come and stop in Jeddah.
She was empowered. And I’m interested in that. So we, we decided to build a women expedition because we wanted to give an opportunity for curious, intrepid, women travelers, which is the majority of our audience to visit this place in a safe way in a way that they can start to make their own mind about it as I did
She was empowered. And I’m interested in that. So we, we decided to build a women expedition because we wanted to give an opportunity for curious, intrepid, women travelers,
Zina Bencheikh
Following Sarah Omar
[00:12:33] Beth: Over the next few days. Zina follows Sarah Omar, a local tour guide who was already a minor celebrity. Hosting her own travel TV show and singularly running the small but mighty women’s tourism ecosystem in Saudi Arabia. They visit multiple places, following an outline that resembles what travelers do today on one of Intrepid’s women’s expeditions in Saudi Arabia.
First they tour Riyadh, the capital, sitting down with a local family for a home-cooked meal.
[00:13:03] Zina: We go to a place in, for example, in Riyadh where we will have a home-cooked meal, which is something we do across all Intrepid. Something very common. Go to a local family and have a meal with the family. But what’s really fantastic in this trip is that, for example, in Riyadh, each time we will go to a different family that has a different mom or women that, you know, runs the family that has a different job and background. So once you might have a woman who is a CEO, another time it might be a woman that is a yoga instructor, or it could be a woman that’s the house, housewife. It shows the spectrum.
[00:13:35] Beth: It shows the differences. In Jeddah, travelers go out on a sailing boat and enjoy a day of swimming.
[00:13:42] Zina: From there, you go in a women only beach. Yeah, hearing from Sarah, it’s something that they love, because going to a women only beach allows them to be themselves. They don’t want to be stalked by men, and they just feel like it’s an environment they love. It’s their time with their girl, and why not? So, go to the women’s beach, and then they just have fun for days.
[00:13:59] Beth: When she arrives in Medina, Zina and Sarah are picked up by a local woman in her car.
[00:14:07] Zina: And if you realize, in 2018, she didn’t have the right to drive a car. Now she has. So she picks you in her car. She’s a teacher, at least the one, Rola, the one I was with. Got four kids, is married, yet she’s juggling different jobs because she’s just enjoying the ability to earn more money as discovering the world through the eyes of the travelers that she’s hosting.
[00:14:27] Beth: In Riyadh and Jeddah. Zina was surprised to find women wearing all sorts of clothes, which contrasted with the ultra-conservative expectations that she had. In Medina, which is a little more conservative, Sarah and Zina hop into a local boutique where they shop for an abaya, a modest overgarment.
[00:14:46] Zina: She would take the group of travelers to a shop and then they would try abayas, all colors, all fun, they’re beautiful, they’re really nice to wear. And every one of our customers would get to buy her own abaya. So she can go in the side, being dressed modestly, but with something that she would bring home that she would remind her. It’s a national dress, it means nothing, it’s just a national dress, literally. It’s something they’re very proud of and then she’ll take and she took me and she’ll take our groups to her own house where you meet her mom, her mom is um, is a widow and you see how they live in this building, there’s four different levels and I thought it was just the building.
In fact, it’s their house, but each level has a different member of the family because they live together. because they live in community and it’s just so beautiful. It’s so beautiful. You just see the brother with his wife and the other sister and all together they just stay with their mom. So the mom doesn’t stay alone. It makes you realize they’re just normal people. And if we were not going there, they wouldn’t have the opportunity to do what they’re doing. They’re really, really, as I said, enjoying and getting so much out of it. And I think it’s very powerful.
From @BlindishLatina to Industry Advocate – Catarina Rivera on 85 Percent
Why Women’s Expeditions Matter
[00:15:45] Beth: Planning a trip isn’t always easy and finding people to travel with can be even harder. With Intrepid, you can leave the Planning to the experts and meet potential besties who are just as passionate about discovering the world as you are. Visit intrepidtravel.com and choose from over 1000 trips in more than a hundred countries. Intrepid travel, good trips only.
As she traveled through Saudi Arabia, Zina slowly realized that everything she thought about this place was completely wrong. While women’s realities were certainly very different from much of the rest of the world, Zina also found that women were perfectly capable of telling their own stories. And in a lot of ways, a women’s expedition would be perfect. It’d create work opportunities for women, invest in that work, and maybe if she was lucky, create space for travelers to form their own opinions about a place, just as she had done.
[00:17:51] Zina: The trip is a lot of fun as well. It’s, it’s not just like learning and it’s also a lot of fun activities, which is very important because at the end of the day, it’s about the joy of travel.
[00:18:00] Beth: The goal, and the mission of Intrepid’s Women’s Expeditions on a whole, is getting more money back into women’s pockets. A few weeks ago, Wanderful launched the Woman Owned Map, the first-ever interactive map that helps you find and visit woman-owned businesses when you travel. The concept is simple. 85 percent of travel decisions are made by women. We know this because of the name of this podcast, right? So, what would a world look like where we reinvested that 85 percent back into woman-owned businesses? The concept of Intrepid’s women’s expeditions is not dissimilar in this respect.
[00:18:41] Zina: My first Intrepid trip was in Thailand, and I really was blown away by the style of travel, the impact. The way we travel is very simple. We use public transport. We stay in locally owned guest houses. But in fact, it’s more the experiences you get out of it. The fact that you have a local guide, a local insider that takes you. Through this destination, like to their own lands and hear about their own stories and customs and, and how they live.
I really was blown away by the style of travel, the impact. The way we travel is very simple. We use public transport. We stay in locally owned guest houses. But in fact, it’s more the experiences you get out of it.
Zina Bencheikh
And what is really, really interesting is the customer that we attract are women like you and I in majority, which is really interesting. More than 65 percent of our travelers are women, but it’s 80 percent of the travel purchase that’s done by women. Or even when they book for the, and also now with trips in Morocco, in the Middle East, in those places that I’m responsible for now, they have much more than that 65 percent average that Intrepid has, because there are places where.
A lot of females, especially female solo traveler, and I’m not saying single, I’m saying solo, as you know, there’s a big difference between both, tend to like to travel to because of the nature of those destinations, the culture is so different, so interesting, but also there is an element of safety and obviously the connection that they can make with others and others. Being able to track so many women on our trips at some stage made me think and made us obviously think about, well, shouldn’t we have women expeditions? We should have like trips that are only designed for women. But the idea is not to create girls club. The idea was because I was tired of travelers meant to empower communities and minorities.
[00:20:03] And in many of these countries, especially the one I mentioned, Middle East, Morocco, I mean, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, where we used to go before and other places in Asia and so on. Women don’t have the same rights as men, let’s be clear, even in comparison with the Western world, when we have too movements and we are complaining a lot because we don’t have the same rights in those places is far, far, far behind.
So that’s kind of how the idea of creating a range that we knew will appeal to our customers because our customers being women, they want to see their money go into women’s pockets. And they will feel empowered themselves to see and also learn so much from these hosts and these women, whether they’re the guide or the host or the cooks or whoever that they’re traveling with, um, and learn from them, the challenges, the struggles, but also the life and, um, just get something out of this as well.
Bridging Worlds: How Zina Bencheikh Uses Travel to Empower and Transform
[00:20:51] Beth: As a Moroccan woman herself, for Zina, these lessons fall close to home.
[00:20:57] Zina: In rural, remote, and mountainous areas of Morocco, many women lack access to education.They haven’t had the chance, the gift of education that we have, us women from the city, and even more myself having been able to travel overseas, and which is a massive privilege as a Moroccan woman. And do you realize that actually, even these women, they’re the one who work in the fields. They’re the one who carry the heavy kind of agricultural things. While Zina rose through the ranks at Intrepid, living overseas in places like the UK, Canada, and France taught her one thing. Eventually, she would come back home to Morocco, and she would make a difference there.
[00:21:37] Zina: I think I made it a mission. At some stage, I realized I had a privilege. I didn’t realize that before a long time until I came back to Morocco, that’s for sure. As I started working for Intrepid, I realized that, I was 26 years old, I think when I started. I was already a finance manager, which is part of a big job already in the country that I could employ people that I could make decisions, you know, on who we contract.
I remember as a finance manager, I was, uh, giving micro-loans to small suppliers who were coming and say, look, I want to improve my accommodation so you can bring your customers. But I need air con, small things like that, you know, and men and women really. And I realized I had power that I can use in if I do it the right way.
I realized I had power that I can use, if I do it the right way.
Zina Bencheikh
So I really. Took this and made it a mission. I believe. I remember when I became a general manager, I became even more obvious. And as I started to get promotions, cause I had like five promotions in 10 years. And so each time these promotions were brought to me by one of my managers.
I was always thinking, you know, it’s too much work. I have two young kids. It’s going to be very difficult, but if I don’t do it, who’s going to do it. And then if I do it, then there will be women, which is the case. Now, my team in Morocco is women-led. It has a majority of women in the management team where I’m now struggling to actually get men. But I know that these women came and they’re doing what they’re doing because they’ve seen a model at some stage and they actually, that’s possible.
So it opened doors. And that’s why I continue and I will continue all my life. Because I think if I’ve been given this opportunity and privilege, I don’t think I have the right not to, to do something about it. So, and I really believe in the power of travel to fix this. gender pay gap to fix gender inequality. I believe in it because it is the third largest employer in the world and it attracts more women than men. As you said, there’s more women than men in the world, but in travel industry, it’s the case. And if you look at all of the industry, and this is a, this is a UN, the UNWTO, um, statistics, It’s only 39 percent of women that are represented in the wider industry versus 54 in travel.
[00:23:30] So if you think about it, if you reflect your customer with your employees, with your leadership team, your supply chain, then you know, you will potentially make massive impact. I strongly believe also in the impact on the bottom line that it can have on the businesses because we’ve experienced it ourselves.
Travel holds the potential to reshape
[00:23:45] Beth: For Zina, travel holds the potential to reshape. Not only the way we see the world, but also the way we understand each other. She believes that by exploring new places, we can confront challenges, open our minds and shift perspectives in ways we never thought possible. Zina has observed how stepping into unfamiliar environments encourages a deeper connection with the world around us, sparking empathy and insight for her. This isn’t just a professional mission. It’s a personal truth. Travel provides an opportunity to learn, grow, and transform. It’s about gaining awareness and recognizing that shared humanity that binds us. Zina believes that travel can ignite change, connecting individuals and communities while fostering greater compassion and knowledge.
Her commitment lies in designing experiences that push people to move beyond their comfort zones and come away with a richer understanding of the world and of themselves.
[00:24:54] Zina: I believe travel solves many problems, and seeing it happen firsthand has convinced me it’s the right path to follow.
[00:25:01] And we have to continue to do this. When it comes to travel, I think it’s important to keep an open mind and don’t be afraid to discover the unknown and to share in the unknown, to go in places with the idea that you might learn something. For me, it’s, it’s what travel, it’s what travel does. It’s, it’s teach you something, makes you better, makes you another person, a more tolerant, less ignorant, more informed and try to use it as a, as a power to, to become better people.
What Zina Bencheikh’s Story Teaches Us
[00:25:33] Beth: Let’s take a step back and look at some of the key takeaways from our conversation with Zina.
1. Travel reminds us that we don’t know everything and that’s okay.
We all have our own misconceptions and biases. There’s not a single person out there without them. But travel gives us a great opportunity to confront those and change the way we see the world. The key is to be willing to step outside your comfort zone, admit that you’re wrong and learn from the experience.
2. Let women speak for ourselves
Zina’s leadership in developing the tour guide ecosystem in Morocco and around the Middle East highlights the importance of elevating and empowering women in travel, both as explorers and also as key contributors in the destinations we visit. Sometimes the best thing we can do, especially when we’re in places that maybe contrast with our own core values. Is to seek out alternative opinions and hear out underrepresented communities. Giving women space to tell their own stories shapes a much more complex narrative about a place that all of us deserve to hear.
3. We all have power
No matter where you come from in life, you have certain powers. The power to make choices, the power, hopefully to use your voice. If you come from a place of financial privilege or work for a company with a little more of that financial power. You also have the power to invest in the travel industry you want to see.
[00:27:14] Use that power, however you have it to uplift others. You never know what will evolve from there. I want to say an enormous thank you to Zina Bencheck and to Intrepid for this conversation. I had such a great time talking with Zina and I hope that you take some time to learn more about Intrepid Travel and their mission.
You can find out more about them at IntrepidTravel.com or on Instagram @IntrepidTravel. Also, be sure to check out our show notes, where we’ll have all of the links you need. I can’t believe I’m telling you this, but next week is 85 Percent’s final episode of season two. I’ll be doing a wrap-up of all of the episodes and sharing my top takeaways from these incredible conversations.
Beth: Thank you so much for listening to 85 Percent. Make sure if you want to follow along this journey, you hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts so you can keep up with new episodes every week as they drop. Of course, we want you to follow along online as well. Or you can follow me on Instagram at @MaximumBeth. Catch you next time. Safe travels, everyone.
About the 85 Percent Podcast
Women make 85% of travel decisions. So why are we not 85% of travel marketing?
85 Percent explores what it means to be a woman in travel through interviews with leading women in the travel, tourism and hospitality industries.
From CEOs, to travel influencers and writers, to women who work in cleaning and maintenance, we’re cutting into the underbelly of an industry that is predominantly made of women, but still fails to include them, and is hosted by Beth Santos, founder of leading women’s travel network, Wanderful.
About the Host, Beth Santos
Beth Santos is a passionate entrepreneur and community builder out to disrupt travel for women worldwide. She is founder and CEO of Wanderful, an international collective of travelers and travel content creators on a mission to make travel better for all women. She is the creator of the WITS Travel Creator Summit, a leading event for women and gender diverse travel creators, the annual Bessie Awards to honor women of impact in travel, and the first major outdoor travel festival by and for women, Wanderfest.
Beth has been named one of 17 changemakers shaping the future of the travel industry by Business Insider, one of 12 women to follow by Conde Nast Traveller, and one of 20 influential women in the travel industry by Travel Pulse. In 2022, she was named Godmother of the Azamara Onward cruise ship.
She is the author of WANDER WOMAN: How to Reclaim Your Space, Find Your Voice, and Travel the World, Solo and works to amplify underrepresented voices in travel while challenging each of us to do better in her work as a keynote speaker, an industry consultant, and a startup and small business coach. At home she is a co-owner of Ula Cafe, an inspired cafe and community hub in the Boston neighborhood of Jamaica Plain, where she lives with her husband and children.
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